![\"Music](\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGM_CENTTRIP_300x250.gif\" "\\"Music")
<\/i><\/a><\/figure>What do Nevermind<\/em>, Appetite For Destruction<\/em>, Ray Of Light<\/em>, 1989<\/em>, Back To Black<\/em> and Purple Rain<\/em> all have in common?<\/p>\n They\u2019re all hugely successful albums that had a massive impact on wider pop culture, of course. But the hidden link between these \u2013 and many, many other \u2013 landmark records is that they were all shaped in some way by clients of Mark Beaven and Andrew Kipnes\u2019 AAM producer and songwriter management company.<\/p>\n \u201cWe\u2019re the people behind the people, behind the people,\u201d laughs Beaven. \u201cIt means we really are in the middle of a lot of music creation.<\/p>\n “We\u2019ve been blessed to work on so many different things that have not just connected inside the music space, but also shifted culture. When you see something go from the germination of a scene to really transforming the landscape and defining culture for a very long time, that\u2019s fun!\u201d<\/p>\n And Beaven has certainly had a lot of fun along the way. He started his career in New York City, running independent import record store Bonaparte by day and DJ-ing at clubs such as The Mudd Club and Danceteria at night. His dual role helped him build an artist and industry network like no other, while knowing exactly which records were connecting with the underground.<\/p>\n And so Advanced Alternative Media was born in 1982, initially as a marketing company to be a \u201cbridge between what was cool, what should be commercial within that, and the community that can help tell that story\u201d.<\/p>\n The first few years were tough. \u201cThe first five years of the company, we were going out of business every day,\u201d says Beaven. \u201cWe\u2019d have rice for dinner and rice for lunch, but it was fun. To get to eat was a miracle. So, if people took us out for a meal, they got a miracle. The rule is, three miracles and you can become a saint \u2013 we were like the sainthood!\u201d<\/p>\n Before too long, AAM didn\u2019t have to worry about lunch: it was employed by most of the big labels, working on everything from The Smiths<\/strong> and The Cure<\/strong> to Prince<\/strong> and Madonna<\/strong> and Nirvana<\/strong> and Radiohead<\/strong>. But the company really found its raison d\u2019etre when production duo Steve Thompson and Michael Barbiero \u2013 who have worked on such landmarks as Guns N\u2019Roses’ Appetite For Destruction<\/em> and Metallica\u2019s \u2026And Justice For All<\/em>, asked if they would manage them.<\/p>\n Back then, not many producers or songwriters had management, and AAM helped establish a new sector, earning a reputation for improving deals and boosting creator rights along the way.<\/p>\n Decades on, many of AAM\u2019s early clients remain with the company, which stood by Dr Luke during his long-running legal dispute with Kesha, which was finally settled in 2023 (\u201cWe\u2019re in an era where a lot of wrongs of the past are being addressed and hopefully we\u2019re coming to a better framework of interpersonal working,\u201d says Beaven. \u201cBut if I didn\u2019t believe in his innocence, I would not have stayed\u201d).<\/p>\n And, despite vastly increased competition, AAM remains the producer\/songwriter management sector\u2019s pacesetter, with 55 nominations for its clients \u2013 which include the likes of Greg Wells, Justin Tranter <\/strong>and Sarah Hudson<\/strong> \u2013 at this year\u2019s Grammys.<\/p>\n Meanwhile, Beaven\u2019s own contribution to the industry was recognized at last week\u2019s MUSEXPO conference in Los Angeles, where he picked up the Lifetime Achievement Award.<\/p>\n Ahead of that honor, Beaven sat down with MBW in LA to talk Nirvana, negotiation, competition, and why songwriters still need better compensation for their work\u2026<\/p>\n I keep telling them they\u2019ve got to give me a half-lifetime award, because I still have a lot more to do!<\/p>\n My partner and I have been doing this for so many years, it\u2019s been an incredible journey, I\u2019ve got to work with so many incredible people and artists. I love music, so being able to work with things I\u2019m passionate about, work with people who are incredibly talented and be part of that journey for them, it\u2019s been an honor.<\/p>\n I\u2019ve been fortunate that, when I hear something that is pivotal and exceptional, I\u2019ve usually been able to spot that.<\/p>\n The first time I heard Nevermind<\/em> it was like, of course, this is insane. You don\u2019t really understand the scale of change it can bring, but you\u2019re like, \u2018This is different, it\u2019s its own thing, it\u2019s so good that it’ll do well, people will come to it, it\u2019ll make change\u2019.<\/p>\n “I\u2019ve been fortunate that, when I hear something that is pivotal and exceptional, I\u2019ve usually been able to spot that.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n We marketed a lot of the earlier Radiohead records, and when you\u2019re hearing that, you were like, \u2018OK, nothing like it, genius\u2019 \u2013 something so consistently exceptional has its own gravity and brings people to it. It\u2019s always fascinating with outsider music, things that don\u2019t fit in the current framework of pop music. Look at Oasis, when that came out, globally \u2013 boom! Where did that come from?<\/p>\n Yeah. I had a phone call from John Silva: \u2018Mark, we just signed to Geffen, they\u2019re a great band, they\u2019ve sold 10-12,000 records so far, we hope we sell 80,000 records and that they can tour and quit their day jobs\u2019.<\/p>\n He asked if [renowned mixer] Andy Wallace would consider doing the album for a fee that was 50% of his current fee, because at the time he was probably the top mixer in the business.<\/p>\n God bless Andy, he said yes, we worked it out between ourselves and everybody was really happy. And the record just continued to evolve through every stage of the process and become that much better. It was like a force of nature.<\/p>\n Everybody knew what to do when a record got to a certain place, but very few people knew how to start a record \u2013 and we did.<\/p>\n You can look at charts but, at some point, music actually has to connect with people, they have to care about it. What really makes a difference is people actually playing something and people hearing it and liking it.<\/p>\n It was good that we had a day job! There were a couple of people doing management back then, including Sandy Roberton, who probably was the first.<\/p>\n But early on we were one of the few companies that really specialized. And what wound up happening was, we came into something much like an artist manager in the sixties who was like, \u2018Why is my artist only getting four points? Let\u2019s change that\u2026\u2019<\/p>\n “IF YOU have a problem, you have somebody that\u2019s not going to run from it, somebody who\u2019s probably seen it before and will help land the plan safely.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n As records grew bigger, it gave us leverage to create a more balanced dialog. If you\u2019re dealing with us, you\u2019re probably going to pay a little more, but you\u2019re going to have somebody who stands with you through the entire journey, making sure it\u2019s a great one. We hopefully never have a problem but when you do, you have somebody that\u2019s not going to run from it, somebody who\u2019s probably seen it before and will help land the plan safely and keep things moving.<\/p>\n You have to look at business as a long-term relationship. If somebody\u2019s not where they were two years ago and they\u2019re that much bigger, they\u2019re going to get more, that\u2019s just the way the world works.<\/p>\n We\u2019ve always fought strongly for our clients getting appropriate compensation, at times when they often weren\u2019t. But we\u2019re not there to hurt people, we\u2019re there to help people and we\u2019ve done that throughout our career. At some point it stops being a fight and becomes more like business as normal.<\/p>\n Music is communication, and communication has changed incredibly.<\/p>\n When we went to digital files, we freed up music from itself. In the prior framework, if you were on a record and it had a hit, you made money. Your song maybe wasn\u2019t the one that really heavily commoditized the record, but you were talented enough to be on it.<\/p>\n Artists made more money because, if you wanted that one song to play once at home, you had to buy the physical product. You saw a cycle where developing artists could live off 50-75,000 sales plus publishing and touring, allowing them to make another record and develop their skills.<\/p>\n But now you have a \u2018make it or break it\u2019 situation. Then, 75,000 records would be $125,000 approximately \u2013 in its day, that was reasonable for a band to live on. Now, a million plays [earns] $5,000, so how many plays do you have to have, and does a developing artist ever get that?<\/p>\n We\u2019ve gone from a model that both rewarded volume but also allowed development, now we don\u2019t really have anything that rewards or allows development, only the most-consumed things.<\/p>\n What are the two things that drive the entire music business? A great song and a great artist. We all eat off the plates of those people, we\u2019re dependent upon them.<\/p>\n “What are the two things that drive the entire music business? A great song and a great artist. We all eat off the plates of those people, we\u2019re dependent upon them.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n If great artists or great songwriters feel they can\u2019t make a living\u2026 What if someone like Kurt Cobain was not so enamoured of music, was seeing it as an impossibility to ever make a living and wound up doing something completely different? What a loss.<\/p>\n Because of the framework we have, there\u2019s no lower class in music, there is very little, if any, middle class, it\u2019s just the people who are exceptionally successful that can make a living. You routinely see people who are getting cuts and placements and sometimes even singles who are driving Uber.<\/p>\n In getting a client the most for the work they\u2019ve done, you have to understand the chain of commerce and where money is taken away.<\/p>\n The first thing you hope to do is create the most efficient chain of commerce, work the best relationships to predispose your client to the best treatment within those chains of commerce.<\/p>\n Then you can look at how you redefine the framework and moments of compensation. When someone like Spotify sees an opportunity to redefine the framework of transaction \u2013 with people who are struggling to feed not their families even but themselves sometimes \u2013 taking what can be 20% of their overall earnings as a songwriter away really hurts.<\/p>\n You wind up always trying to find the right way to amplify those messages to people and what\u2019s always been a shame, but is the nature of art, is that there are organizations that represent labels and publishers as a whole. Songwriters? Songwriters sometimes have trouble because personality often brings the ability to write, but they don\u2019t all get along, they don\u2019t all [join] the same organization and they can\u2019t unionize.<\/p>\n With songwriters, in a conversation of commerce, you\u2019re going up against Apple, Meta, Amazon, TikTok, YouTube etc. It\u2019s not that they\u2019re bad, it\u2019s just they have their manifest destiny to run a business, and we often don\u2019t have enough leverage at the table.<\/p>\n “going from 100 million songs to 10 billion doesn\u2019t necessarily make any of them better, it likely waters down the amount of music we actually connect with.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n So, sometimes in a negotiation, rather than being a critic, you want to be an educator. You want to talk about [what it means] when people don\u2019t view it as a viable occupation and it becomes a hobby. Or when we think we can just have AI generate a song.<\/p>\n We like music and artists because they connect with us \u2013 and going from 100 million songs to 10 billion doesn\u2019t necessarily make any of them better, it likely waters down the amount of music we actually connect with.<\/p>\n We have a finite amount of time in our lives. We want to spend it with something we care about as much as we can.<\/p>\n When you look at the market, taxes and the cost of interest, what is a dollar today worth in 10 years? You can probably do more with it today, if you have any idea what you\u2019re going to do with it, and make more than you would make by holding it.<\/p>\n But I never tell somebody they should or shouldn\u2019t. I\u2019m like, this is what it would do for you, these are the decisions you have to make, these are the determinants you would want to look at \u2013 so what do you want to do?<\/p>\n And then there\u2019s the other thing \u2013 what\u2019s it worth? As somebody that has bought wine and other things for years, you know if you get two people that are passionate about owning something, they will bid it up.<\/p>\n Skill, heart and belief they can do it. Every once in a while, you\u2019ll run into somebody whose skill is so much greater than they understand, but maybe the belief they can do it or the ability to sell themselves hasn\u2019t evolved yet.<\/p>\n Or sometimes you get somebody that\u2019s just a consummate artist and you have to help them learn how to be a little better in a room, but the music is so powerful it speaks for itself.<\/p>\n At the end of the day, you want someone that\u2019s transformative, that inspires you and makes music you care about.<\/p>\n There was always competition and there always will be competition, but there\u2019s enough room for everybody.<\/p>\n I don\u2019t view it as negative; it inspires, it challenges. The people that are \u2018competitors\u2019 are my peers, we work together.<\/p>\n If you focus on your clients, telling a great story and helping them find the greatest artists and make the best music, the world will solve the rest.<\/p>\n We\u2019re looking at building the company in many different ways right now. It\u2019s such a moment of change that there are incredible opportunities.<\/p>\n You\u2019re always sitting there playing with the Rubik\u2019s Cube going, \u2018We have all these parts, what are we doing with them to transform things?\u2019 I want a second lifetime achievement award!<\/p>\n Mark Beaven on starting out as a DJ in some of New York’s most storied clubs, working with Nirvana, helping establish the songwriter\/producer management business, the nature of greatness, and the power of music<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":29,"featured_media":227627,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[3530],"class_list":["post-227604","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-worlds-greatest-managers"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/227604","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/29"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=227604"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/227604\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":254028,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/227604\/revisions\/254028"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/227627"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=227604"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=227604"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=227604"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}<\/i><\/a><\/figure>
\nHOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE WINNING THE MUSEXPO LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD?<\/h6>\n
\nYOU AND YOUR CLIENTS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN SOME KEY MOMENTS IN MUSIC HISTORY. DID YOU KNOW THEY WOULD BE SO SIGNIFICANT AT THE TIME?<\/h6>\n
\n<\/i><\/a><\/figure>BUT DIDN\u2019T EVEN NIRVANA\u2019S LABEL HAVE LOW EXPECTATIONS FOR NEVERMIND?<\/h6>\n
\nWHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE BUSINESS WHEN AAM WAS A MARKETING COMPANY?<\/h6>\n
\nWHEN YOU MOVED INTO PRODUCER\/SONGWRITER MANAGEMENT, DID YOU REALIZE YOU WERE PIONEERING A SECTOR?<\/h6>\n
\nHOW HAVE THINGS CHANGED SINCE YOU STARTED?<\/h6>\n
\nSO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE CREATORS TODAY?<\/h6>\n
\nAS A MANAGER, WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT THAT? ARE YOU SEEKING MASTER POINTS FOR WRITERS THESE DAYS?<\/h6>\n
\nYOU\u2019VE BROKERED A NUMBER OF CATALOG SALES. HOW IMPORTANT ARE THOSE TO YOUR CLIENTS AT THE MOMENT?<\/h6>\n
\nWHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A CLIENT?<\/h6>\n
\nHOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE INCREASED COMPETITION IN YOUR SECTOR?<\/h6>\n
\nAND WHAT COMES NEXT AFTER A LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD?<\/h6>\n
\n<\/i><\/a><\/a><\/figure>A specialist in intelligent treasury, payments and foreign exchange, Centtrip works with over 500 global artists helping them and their crew maximise their income and reduce touring costs with its award-winning multi-currency card and market-leading exchange rates. Centtrip also offers record labels, promoters, collection societies and publishers a more cost-effective way to send payments across the globe.<\/a><\/i><\/b>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"