{"id":211285,"date":"2024-09-18T12:57:13","date_gmt":"2024-09-18T11:57:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/?p=211285"},"modified":"2024-09-18T12:58:02","modified_gmt":"2024-09-18T11:58:02","slug":"to-this-day-i-dont-look-at-charts-i-dont-cloud-my-head-with-stuff-i-cant-affect","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/to-this-day-i-dont-look-at-charts-i-dont-cloud-my-head-with-stuff-i-cant-affect\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8216;To this day, I don\u2019t look at charts, I don\u2019t cloud my head with stuff I can\u2019t affect.&#8217;"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Producers with Hipgnosis Songs Fund\"><img  alt=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Producers with Hipgnosis Songs Fund\" title=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Producers with Hipgnosis Songs Fund\" class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" ><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/figure><p>MBW\u2019s World\u2019s Greatest Producers series sees us interview \u2013 and celebrate \u2013 some of the outstanding talents working in studios across the decades. This time, we meet Swedish writer-producer Rami Yacoub, who reflects on his partnership with Max Martin, Britney&#8217;s breakthrough, One Direction fans sleeping outside his studio, his five-year hiatus, and selling his catalog &#8211; several times. World\u2019s Greatest Producers is supported by <a class=\"link-external\" href=\"https:\/\/www.hipgnosissongs.com\/\" rel=\"noopener\">Hipgnosis Song Management<\/a>.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>For most songwriter-producers, that first American No.1 single is something to obsess over.<\/p>\n<p>Charts are closely monitored for signs of upward momentum. Data points are scrutinized for clues that this could be the tune that\u2019s headed for the top. Armies of music industry workers are mobilized to relay details of every spike in sales and streams.<\/p>\n<p>However, Rami Yacoub and Max Martin, it seems fair to say, are not most songwriter-producers. When Britney Spears\u2019 eternal \u2026<em>Baby One More Time<\/em> \u2013 the first song they\u2019d ever worked on together, which is not a bad way to start \u2013 hit the summit of the Hot 100 in January 1999, they were so busy in the studio it took them almost a month to notice.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cMax walked into the studio one day when I was comping some vocals and said, \u2018Oh, by the way, we\u2019re No.1,\u2019\u201d chuckles Yacoub. \u201cI was like, \u2018Where?\u2019 \u2018Oh, the US\u2019. \u2018When?\u2019 \u2018Three weeks ago, I forgot to tell you.\u2019 I call him Max \u2018By The Way\u2019 Martin\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The pair attempted a belated celebration, heading out into Stockholm on a quiet Monday night for a Swedish feast of Beef Rydberg, champagne and cigars, but their hearts weren\u2019t in it. Conscious of the recording session they had booked for the following morning, they called it a night before 11pm, and have rarely made a big deal of their astounding commercial success ever since.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s because, for Yacoub at least, writing and producing the song itself has always been the most satisfying part of the process.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cNone of us realized what an amazing record it was until our heritage and legacy became something in the culture,\u201d he says. \u201cAt the time, it was just a song to us. It wasn\u2019t something we thought about. Now, it\u2019s easier to look back and see the impact\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<div class=\"mb-embed-container\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/C-u5WLJ9Yk4\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<hr \/>\n<p>Ain\u2019t that the truth. Over the ensuing two-and-a-half decades, both with Martin and without, Yacoub has co-written and co-produced enough top-tier smashes to fill a jukebox and still have enough left over for the best Now! That\u2019s What I Call Music compilation in the franchise\u2019s history.<\/p>\n<p>And yet Yacoub says he hardly seemed destined for such songwriting stardom. At school, he wasn\u2019t overly interested in music, intending to become a doctor until he got into heavy metal and decided to start a band. Eventually, he started to write poems\/nascent songs (\u201cThe first was called <em>Love On The Battlefield<\/em>,\u201d he chuckles, \u201cIt was very rock!\u201d) and, later, experiment with synthesizers.<\/p>\n<p>Bitten by the production bug, he earned a reputation as a remixer and radio jingle-maker. That led to working with Lutricia McNeal, an American singer living in Sweden, and they scored a couple of big European hits in the mid-1990s.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8216;Every producer and writer in Sweden knew about Denniz and Max, because Denniz taught Max everything.&#8217;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>A friend secured him an interview at Cheiron, the legendary Swedish studio run by Denniz Pop, where Max Martin was coming to prominence. But when Pop passed away tragically young in 1998, Yacoub was devastated.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cEvery producer and writer in Sweden knew about Denniz and Max, because Denniz taught Max everything,\u201d Yacoub says. \u201cSo Denniz was a mentor to all of us. Even though I was only there for a short time before he passed, it felt like I knew him forever. He inspired all of us; the only reason we\u2019re all here is because of him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Yacoub proudly helps to carry on Pop\u2019s legacy through the Denniz Pop Awards, which honors those making an outstanding contribution to Sweden\u2019s international pop music heritage, and its Backstage program, which connects emerging Swedish talent with the music industry.<\/p>\n<p>With Pop gone, Yacoub, Martin and other regular collaborators continued on his pop mission, writing and producing a seemingly endless string of hits for the Jive-Zomba Britney-Backstreet-Boys-*NSYNC hit factory and many others, until around 2006 when, burned out, Yacoub decided to take a year off.<\/p>\n<p>One year turned into five, before he re-emerged with Kinglet Studios in Sweden and began a new hot streak in partnership with Carl Falk and collaborating with others, working on most of One Direction\u2019s megahits, plus the likes of Nicki Minaj\u2019s <em>Starships<\/em>.<\/p>\n<div class=\"mb-embed-container\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/SeIJmciN8mo\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>After 1D became a global phenomenon, Yacoub took another break before reuniting with Max Martin in Los Angeles in 2018. More hits for the likes of Lady Gaga, Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber and Post Malone have followed.<\/p>\n<p>Right now, however, Yacoub has cleared his diary bar some sessions with a couple of developing acts he\u2019s working on. He\u2019s also involved with the advisory council at Malibu\u2019s Oaks Christian School. And, while he complies sheepishly when young artists ask him to call their parents \u201cbecause my Mom loves your songs\u201d and occasionally struggles to decipher their text speak, he remains uniquely fluent in the language of international hitmaking.<\/p>\n<p>Time then, for him to sit down with <em>MBW<\/em> in the bright Swedish sun to talk Gaga, One Direction and why he wouldn\u2019t change a thing about the music industry\u2026<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>WHY IS SWEDEN SO GOOD AT POP MUSIC?<\/h6>\n<p>[<em>Laughs<\/em>] It\u2019s been like that for a very long time, we\u2019ve had big acts like Roxette and ABBA. It\u2019s not something in the water \u2013 it\u2019s just regular tap water, it tastes amazing though!<\/p>\n<p>We have a lot of public music schools, so the option to choose music going to high school is very common and Swedish folk music is very rooted in the culture.<\/p>\n<p>Plus, you\u2019ve heard Swedish people talk and we have a very melodic language \u2013 we all speak English but we speak very up-and-down, it&#8217;s very pitch-based. And the darkness might help \u2013 we work a lot! It\u2019s a combination of a lot of things \u2013 it\u2019s not magic, but it\u2019s got to be something\u2026<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>MAX MARTIN HAS BECOME THIS ALMOST MYTHICAL FIGURE IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. WHAT\u2019S HE LIKE TO WORK WITH?<\/h6>\n<p>He\u2019s very much real! At Cheiron, it was incredible and it wasn\u2019t just him. The whole group was so kind \u2013 we were a collective, this little bubble. The first lunch I had with Max, on the first day I started working with him, he told me, \u2018I know you\u2019re good, but it doesn\u2019t matter how good you are if you don\u2019t work well socially with this team\u2019.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8216;When I first worked with Max, we did insane hours, but we were kids, we were 20. We didn\u2019t have much time for anything else.&#8217;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That was the philosophy Denniz had, the group had to work amazingly together, and you\u2019ve got to love each other. To this day I still believe strength is in numbers; a group that really clicks together and works as a family \u2013 and that\u2019s what it was.<\/p>\n<p>When I first worked with Max, we did insane hours, but we were kids, we were 20. We didn\u2019t have much time for anything else \u2013 at that time, the internet was non-existent for us, so we didn\u2019t care about playlists or placements, we just did songs and they got released.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>WERE YOU GUYS SURPRISED TO BE ASKED TO WORK WITH BON JOVI ON <em>IT\u2019S MY LIFE<\/em>?<\/h6>\n<p>Well, during all the [initial] success, we got phone calls from all over to work with different people. But we knew when to say no to things, because you\u2019ve got to know your limitations.<\/p>\n<p>They called us to do a follow-up song to Aerosmith\u2019s <em>I Don\u2019t Want To Miss A Thing<\/em>, the <em>Armageddon<\/em> song. I was like, \u2018Are you crazy, there\u2019s no way we can do anything close to that song, let\u2019s just say no\u2019.<\/p>\n<p>LA Reid played us this girl he wanted us to work with and, after he played the songs, we literally said, \u2018What are we supposed to do with this? We\u2019ll just fuck it up\u2019 \u2013 and that was Alicia Keys.<\/p>\n<p>We got asked to work with Whitney Houston, but Swedes are very much against drugs and she had just been caught with a bag of weed, so we said no. It was crazy.<\/p>\n<p>But when Bon Jovi called, we said yes. Max went and worked with Jon [Bon Jovi] and Richie [Sambora] for a week and they wrote the song. I picked Max up from the airport and he was like, \u2018I think I have something good\u2019. He played it and I was like, \u2018That\u2019s amazing\u2019. \u2018Shall we produce it?\u2019 \u2018Of course we should, it\u2019s Jon Bon Jovi, it\u2019s awesome\u2019.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8216;our brains were so programmed to do beautifully crafted pop songs, it was like we forgot what rock was.&#8217;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So, we started producing it but, even though we come from rock, our brains were so programmed to do beautifully crafted pop songs, it was like we forgot what rock was.<\/p>\n<p>We sent it to them and they were like, \u2018This is great, but it\u2019s too pop for us\u2019. \u2018What do you mean, it sounds fantastic! You\u2019re crazy!\u2019 But we were like, \u2018Go ahead, do your thing on it\u2019 \u2013 and they did.<\/p>\n<p>They sent it back and we\u2019re blasting this song like, \u2018This sounds like shit\u2019. So, we tell them, you\u2019ve got to re-produce this. It took a lot of rounds and I still didn\u2019t think it sounded good by the release. Max was like, \u2018This is never going to work\u2019. But it did! It completely revived their career, but we did not know that was going to happen, trust me.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>WHY DID YOU TAKE A BREAK FOR FIVE YEARS?<\/h6>\n<p>I was tired and we\u2019d become like an old couple. I was full, we had so much success and I was like, \u2018Oh God, I need a year off\u2019.<\/p>\n<p>I took one year and then, between 2006 and 2007 I was like, \u2018Maybe I should get back on the horse\u2019.<\/p>\n<p>I had some people book some LA sessions for a couple of weeks and the first day, it was like speed dating. One person came in at 3-4pm then said, \u2018I\u2019m going to go to the next session\u2019. I was like, \u2018What do you mean, the next session?\u2019 I was so used to working for a week or two weeks on a song. So, I was like, \u2018I\u2019m not ready to go back to this business, I\u2019m going to take another break\u2019.<\/p>\n<p>I didn\u2019t even get back into it before I got tired of it! It took three or four years before I figured out I needed to find a Swedish team again.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>BUT WHEN YOU DID COME BACK, YOU CAME BACK WITH A BANG\u2026<\/h6>\n<p>I always tell people that, during those five years off, not once was I stressed about other people working. I wasn\u2019t like, \u2018Oh shit, they\u2019re making all these hits\u2019, I was just enjoying life. But when I stepped back into it, I didn\u2019t have any fear about, \u2018Did I lose it?\u2019 It\u2019s like jumping back on a bike; it takes a second, you\u2019re wobbly, then you just go.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>DID YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU WERE GETTING INTO WHEN YOU AND CARL CO-WROTE WHAT MAKES YOU BEAUTIFUL WITH SAVAN KOTECHA FOR ONE DIRECTION?<\/h6>\n<p>No! Obviously, we were up close with Simon Cowell but it was quite guitar-based and very different to the Backstreet Boys. One Direction was an anomaly, when they blew up. Everybody was trying to do a boyband, but they never came back. You had The Wanted, they had one song. It was something different and we didn\u2019t realize.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<div class=\"mb-embed-container\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/QJO3ROT-A4E\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<hr \/>\n<p>After the first album, they came to Sweden and it was insane the amount of girls that were sleeping outside the studio and running away from home. We had 4,000 or 5,000 girls outside our studio, they broke into nearby houses to try and get into the studio, parents were looking for their daughters on the street in sleeping bags. It was insane!<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>HOW WAS IT WORKING WITH BLOODPOP ON LADY GAGA\u2019S CHROMATICA?<\/h6>\n<p>Gaga\u2019s one of the last true artists. It was one of the most unbelievable experiences working with an artist I\u2019ve had, because of the way she writes and the way she is in the studio.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m pretty picky with my vocals. I want the best, so I\u2019ll push artists. She\u2019s very open with what she\u2019s been through and she was like, \u2018Rami, make sure my vocals come through\u2019. I was like, \u2018I will, don\u2019t worry\u2019. \u2018No, no, you need to feel what I\u2019m saying \u2013 let me tell you what this song is about\u2019. She wanted me to know, so I could get that emotion out of her.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHO TO WORK WITH?<\/h6>\n<p>It\u2019s very different now from five years back, and that was very different compared to 2010. I had a discussion with Ryan Tedder about times now compared to 2010-11. Then, you\u2019d write a song and be like, \u2018This is a hit, who shall we give it? Katy Perry?\u2019 And it usually was a hit. The gut feeling was there.<\/p>\n<p>But music has changed a lot. It\u2019s not that easy to know anymore, there are way fewer artists and they are becoming better at writing songs themselves, so they want to be present in the room. And once they\u2019ve found their team, they stick to it \u2013 it\u2019s not so easy to just send a song.<\/p>\n<p>At this time, I pick my projects very carefully, because my family is my priority, so I don\u2019t just do session after session. There\u2019s a handful of people I can work with without having an artist. It\u2019s a jungle out there, there\u2019s a lot of noise.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>YOU ONCE SAID EVERY SONG SHOULD SOUND LIKE IT TOOK 5 MINUTES TO WRITE \u2013 HOW DO YOU DO THAT?<\/h6>\n<p>We leave no stone unturned. We work through everything. It could take two weeks. Take <em>Side To Side<\/em> by Ariana Grande feat. Nicki Minaj \u2013 the pre-chorus took three weeks to do.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8216;You can work through a song until your ears bleed, but it should sound like you just did the first thing that came up.&#8217;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>There were 40 or 50 different pre-choruses before this pre-chorus, but it sounds like it was always there. And that\u2019s the trick. You can work through a song until your ears bleed, but it should sound like you just did the first thing that came up. If you don\u2019t have the experience, it\u2019ll just sound like a bunch of hooks after each other.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>IS THAT HARDER TO DO IN THE AGE OF MULTIPLE CO-WRITERS AND CO-PRODUCERS?<\/h6>\n<p>Yes and no. Somebody needs to steer the room. With 14, 15 people, it\u2019s kinda crazy, but you never actually end up with 15 people in a room. It\u2019s three or four, then it gets sent off, somebody samples something and it becomes like a football team!<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>BEYONC\u00c9\u2019S <em>ALIEN SUPERSTAR<\/em> HAS OVER 20 DIFFERENT WRITERS ON THE CREDITS, INCLUDING YOU. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ALL DID?<\/h6>\n<p>[<em>Laughs<\/em>] No! I don\u2019t know anything, I don\u2019t even know what I did, to be honest with you! It\u2019s just a snippet of a melody that somebody took and I was just like, \u2018OK.\u2019<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY?<\/h6>\n<p>I\u2019m purely creative. I\u2019m good at networking with fellow writers, producers and artists but I\u2019ve never been interested in the label side of it. To this day, I don\u2019t look at charts. Once I do a song, I move on to the next, I don\u2019t cloud my head with stuff I can\u2019t affect.<\/p>\n<p>The only thing I look at is YouTube reactions. There\u2019s no better feeling than that, or going to a concert where 50,000 people are singing <em>What Makes You Beautiful;<\/em>\u00a0that makes a grown man cry. Those are the moments I live for, I don\u2019t live for statistics. I don\u2019t care about statistics at all.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>YOU SOLD PART OF YOUR CATALOG TO OLE IN 2011, LONG BEFORE IT BECAME A TREND. HOW COME?<\/h6>\n<p>I believe in selling catalogs every five years. You build it up and then you sell it. It\u2019s always going to be my song, my name is always on the credits, it\u2019s not going to be written by BMG or Sony. I\u2019d rather take that money now and make good use of it.<\/p>\n<p>If you make two or three hits, you make $3-5 million in two or three years from those songs. So, getting $70 or $80 million is a big difference, that\u2019s building wealth and it\u2019s hard to build wealth as a songwriter unless you sell catalogs \u2013 or you\u2019re Max! I don\u2019t think anybody could afford his catalogs, they\u2019re probably worth $5 billion!<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>IF YOU COULD CHANGE ONE THING ABOUT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, RIGHT HERE AND NOW, WHAT WOULD IT BE AND WHY?<\/h6>\n<p>Honestly, nothing. Do I miss the old days? Yeah, of course, we all do, it was better before. Do I miss the physical and the analog? Oh yeah, I do. Do I miss loading a tape machine, do I miss the physical buttons when I record Britney, cutting in and out and messing it up because you had to be super-fast touching the sliders?<\/p>\n<p>Sure, but that\u2019s what memories are for. We\u2019ve got to move on. The world changes and you\u2019ve got to change with it, otherwise you\u2019ll be left behind.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Swedish writer-producer Rami Yacoub reflects on his partnership with Max Martin, Britney&#8217;s breakthrough, One Direction fans sleeping outside his studio, his five year hiatus, and selling his catalog &#8211; several times<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":29,"featured_media":211526,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[119500],"class_list":["post-211285","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-worlds-greatest-producers"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/211285","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/29"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=211285"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/211285\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/211526"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=211285"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=211285"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=211285"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}