{"id":206563,"date":"2024-07-22T14:45:34","date_gmt":"2024-07-22T13:45:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/?p=206563"},"modified":"2026-03-26T19:48:31","modified_gmt":"2026-03-26T19:48:31","slug":"labels-owning-masters-in-perpetuity-is-criminal-quite-frankly","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/labels-owning-masters-in-perpetuity-is-criminal-quite-frankly\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018Labels owning masters in perpetuity is criminal, quite frankly.&#8217;"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>MBW\u2019s World\u2019s Greatest Managers series profiles the best artist managers in the global business. In this feature, we meet Sam Denniston, founder of Verdigris Management and manager of Jungle. World\u2019s Greatest Managers is supported by\u00a0Centtrip, a specialist in intelligent treasury, payments and foreign exchange \u2013 created with the music industry and its needs in mind.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p class=\"p1\"><figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2017\/06\/WGM_CENTTRIP_300x250-2.gif\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2017\/06\/WGM_CENTTRIP_300x250-2.gif\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Managers with Centtrip\"><img  alt=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Managers with Centtrip\" title=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Managers with Centtrip\" class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2017\/06\/WGM_CENTTRIP_300x250-2.gif\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2017\/06\/WGM_CENTTRIP_300x250-2.gif\" ><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/figure>It\u2019s Coachella 2024 and Sam Denniston has a problem.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">The Verdigris Management founder is watching his clients Jungle smash their set on the Outdoor Theatre stage, but an issue with the side screens has sent him off to find the festival\u2019s production manager. Except he can\u2019t get to where he needs to go, because of a huge security presence.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">\u201cI was like, \u2018I need to get through\u2019,\u201d he chuckles. \u201cAnd then I clocked Taylor Swift dancing with her huge boyfriend and was like, \u2018OK, I get it!\u2019 Donald Glover was in the audience as well \u2013 it was pretty cool\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n      <div class=\"mb-advert__incontent\">      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__tweeny hidden-xs hidden-ms hidden-sm\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-sizes=\"992 1200 1440\" data-name=\"628x90 Sponsor banner #11 (992+1200+1440)\" data-params=\"dfp_sponsor11_628\" id=\"dfp_sponsor11_628\"><\/div>      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__banner mb-advert__banner--inline hidden-xs hidden-sm hidden-md hidden-lg\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-sizes=\"480\" data-name=\"468x60 Sponsor banner #11 (480)\" data-params=\"dfp_sponsor11_468\" id=\"dfp_sponsor11_468\"><\/div>      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__mobile mb-advert__mobile--inline hidden-ms hidden-md hidden-lg\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-sizes=\"320 768\" data-name=\"300x50 Sponsor banner #11 (320+768)\" data-params=\"dfp_sponsor11_300\" id=\"dfp_sponsor11_300\"><\/div>      <\/div>      \n<p class=\"p3\"><span class=\"s1\">Denniston is getting used to rubbing shoulders with A-listers. After 11 years of operating happily under the radar, Jungle and their manager are suddenly gaining access to the industry\u2019s inner sanctums.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Certainly, the campaign for Jungle\u2019s fourth album, <i>Volcano<\/i>, has been remarkable by any standards, let alone those of a veteran dance music act that has always done things its own way.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\"><span class=\"s2\">Earlier this year, they won their first ever BRIT Award (Best Group) and played live at the ceremony on prime-time Saturday night ITV, and were then asked back for more on The Jonathan Ross Show.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Their smash hit single, <i>Back On 74<\/i>, has flown past 225 million streams and 7.1 billion TikTok views, while cracking sales, Spotify and Shazam charts everywhere from the UK to New Zealand and most points in between (including Costa Rica, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Lithuania and Peru).<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">They now have over 14m Spotify monthly listeners and over 750,000 Instagram followers. They have their own <i>Fortnite<\/i> emote and a massive GAP sync\/brand partnership, featuring superstar Tyla recreating the <i>Back On 74<\/i> video moves. And they\u2019ve sold out venues across Europe, Australasia and America (including Red Rocks), with their biggest ever UK show coming up at London\u2019s O2 Arena in September.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">\u201cWe\u2019re talking 11 years of meticulous planning, hard work and constantly touring.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p class=\"p3\">\u201cWhen a lot of artists blow up, the public perception is that it\u2019s an overnight success,\u201d Denniston says as he welcomes <i>MBUK<\/i> into Verdigris HQ, hidden behind an anonymous door on a Shepherd\u2019s Bush side street. \u201cBut I\u2019ve been working with Jungle literally since day one \u2013 we\u2019re talking 11 years of meticulous planning, hard work and constantly touring the globe. It feels great but, dare I say it, well-deserved after a lot of hard work\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Denniston has certainly put a shift in. He grew up in Putney, South-West London and went to an arts-friendly school that encouraged his interest in music. Further inspiration came from his dad\u2019s funk\/R&amp;B record collection and his mother\u2019s mission to help opera reach a more diverse audience by broadcasting performances to outdoor audiences via big screens.<\/p>\n      <div class=\"mb-advert__incontent\">      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__spu\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-name=\"300x250 Sponsor MPU #11\" data-params=\"dfp_spu11\" id=\"dfp_spu11\"><\/div>      <\/div>      \n<p class=\"p3\">Enthralled by the 2000s indie-rock explosion \u2013 Kings Of Leon, The Libertines and Razorlight \u2013 he set his heart on an artist career, only to discover he was a \u201ctruly terrible songwriter\u201d. Instead, he joined production company Blink Productions, working on video shoots and running errands, until he met Josh Lloyd-Watson and Tom McFarland.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">At the time they were in five-piece indie rockers Born Blonde and smarting from an ill-fated major label deal. Denniston recommended they try a new direction \u2013 three of the band weren\u2019t interested, but Lloyd-Watson and McFarland listened and, between them, they developed the Jungle concept.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Two successful albums on XL followed before they left the indie label, signed with AWAL and headed for the stratosphere.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Denniston has been there every step of the way, going to every show, anywhere in the world in the early years \u2013 despite a rare neurological autoimmune condition that means he has to visit hospital every two weeks for intravenous treatment.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">\u201cWe became a very tight trifecta,\u201d says Denniston. \u201cEvery decision would be made between the three of us and, more often than not, we could move forward very quickly because the three of us were thinking the same thing at the same time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Jungle\u2019s line-up has since been supplemented by Lydia Kitto \u2013 whose songwriting prowess Denniston credits with making a huge impact, not least on <i>Back On 74 <\/i>\u2013 while Charlie Di Placido\u2019s creative work with Lloyd-Watson on Jungle\u2019s videos and the GAP campaign, is also cited as key to their success.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<div class=\"mb-embed-container\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/q3lX2p_Uy9I?si=uJWB_eQz0Ph_eDsF\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<hr \/>\n<p class=\"p3\">Verdigris has also grown. It\u2019s set up like an artist services company, with specialists in particular areas and Denniston keeping a watchful eye across each project. He praises senior director Adam Faires for his work on the band\u2019s sync and brand business and overall growth, and hails the entire team for \u201cworking in perfect harmony\u201d on the <i>Volcano<\/i> campaign.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">The Verdigris roster also features the likes of Hot Chip, Priya Ragu and rising star Bea And Her Business, as well as a producer\/mixer\/songwriter roster and a publishing division, but Denniston is eying further expansion.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">\u201cWe\u2019ve always got space for more,\u201d he says. \u201cI\u2019d love to welcome in an established client that wants their career to take a new path or needs reinvigorating.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">First though, he sits down with <i>MBW <\/i>to talk us through the lore of the Jungle\u2026<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b><figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38.jpg\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"\"><img  class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-80x60.jpg\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-80x60.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-160x119.jpg 160w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-320x238.jpg 320w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-418x311.jpg 418w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-648x482.jpg 648w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.38-836x622.jpg 836w\" data-sizes=\"auto\"><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/figure>How has it been seeing Jungle welcomed into the mainstream after all those years on the underground?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">It\u2019s been wonderful to have a seat at those tables. That\u2019s always where I thought the band should be and have always pushed them as their manager.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">\u201cI see them as a Glastonbury headliner and we\u2019re not going to stop until we get there.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p class=\"p3\">I see them as a Glastonbury and Coachella headliner one day, and we\u2019re not going to stop until we get there. Our BRITs performance is up there as the most viewed performance along with Dua Lipa \u2013 Jungle can quite happily hold their own amongst the pop stardom we\u2019re normally used to seeing on these programmes.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>How have you managed to translate social media virality into real-world success such as ticket sales?<\/b><\/span><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">Well, Jungle have always done incredibly well live. They\u2019ve been that sleeper artist; often promoters are taken aback by how big they are.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\"><span class=\"s2\">We\u2019ve tended to work with independent promoters globally, we haven\u2019t gone in with big promoters because we like being nimble and being able to dictate what price we do tickets at.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Their live trajectory has been slow and steady, but the growth has continually been there. They\u2019ve never not sold out a London show and, with their agents Ed [Thompson, ATC Live] and Avery McTaggart at TBA we\u2019ve been incredibly strategic, never going into rooms that we can\u2019t sell out.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">On the last campaign, we sold out four Brixton Academys, which is 20,000 tickets, and now we\u2019re doing the O2, which is slightly less. But the O2 holds much more resonance!<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>How often do you disagree with the band?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\"><span class=\"s3\">We\u2019ve always had a relationship where we can argue with each other, in a good way. It\u2019s like politics: it\u2019s good to have a strong opposition party to make you think and make sure you\u2019re able to justify your decision.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Ultimately, as a manager, you have to trust your artist and back them. I will always do what they want to do, as long as I feel they\u2019ve listened and had the chance to process what I\u2019ve said. Equally, sometimes you can be dead sure about something as a manager, have a conversation with your artist, turn around and go, \u2018Shit, maybe what they\u2019re saying is the right thing\u2019.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">So, we have a very healthy respect for each other and a very open relationship where we can all be honest, without anyone getting too bruised by it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>How big a decision was the split with XL?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">It felt like a fairly mutual decision. We just got to the point where there was creative difference between where the label felt they should be going and, with Josh in particular, what he wanted to be putting out visually.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">The relationship was a bit fractious, and it was hard to see how they could move forward. I don\u2019t think either party was to blame, that\u2019s just what happens sometimes. You grow up, take a look at your business partner and go, \u2018This relationship isn\u2019t right anymore\u2019. But I adored working with XL, they were brilliant as a label. I would hope there\u2019s no bad blood.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>So presumably AWAL is the right fit?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">Yes. I\u2019d worked with AWAL across some other clients. I\u2019d really enjoyed the autonomy we were given as a management company and we\u2019d had success.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">When it came to figuring out the best partner, we didn\u2019t really need A&amp;R-ing. The band have a very strong sense of the records they want to make, and the proof is in the pudding: they\u2019ve made great records time and time again, and had success.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">What we needed was a brilliant international structure, people who\u2019d been in the game long enough to know what they were doing, but a younger company that was forward-thinking and able to adapt to the modern climate.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">AWAL have been a huge component to Jungle\u2019s success, the whole team are brilliant to work with. [AWAL COO] Paul Hitchman\u2019s got vast experience within the industry, but he\u2019s always treated me like an equal, which I\u2019ve really respected. We\u2019ve always been able to have honest, frank conversations with him.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>Does it matter that they\u2019re now owned by Sony?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">I approached it with a level of trepidation, for sure. Not because I\u2019m anti-major labels, but with any bigger corporation buying a slightly smaller corporation, you worry that the culture would change. Thus far, I haven\u2019t found anything different \u2013 the Sony presence seems to be very much in the background.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b><figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57.jpg\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"\"><img  class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-80x63.jpg\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-80x63.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-160x125.jpg 160w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-320x250.jpg 320w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-418x327.jpg 418w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-648x506.jpg 648w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-836x653.jpg 836w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/07\/Screenshot-2024-07-18-at-13.48.57-1296x1013.jpg 1296w\" data-sizes=\"auto\"><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/figure>Does the AWAL deal mean Jungle are making lots of money out of <i>Back On 74<\/i>\u2019s streaming success?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">They are. Jungle have always been in this amazing situation where they\u2019ve actually made money from all of their businesses fairly early doors.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">We recouped our XL deal pretty quickly, because they hit that sweet spot where they sold records but also did great synchronisation business globally. So, from day one, they\u2019ve made money from the recording side and the publishing side \u2013 I\u2019m very aware this is unusual!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">But the revenue from being on a far more artist-friendly deal dwarfs what you\u2019d get on an old-school deal. As a manager, I\u2019d find it incredibly difficult to justify doing those 80\/20 deals; they\u2019re a thing of the past. I don\u2019t think any label system that clings on to that belief will be around for that much longer.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>Some majors are probably still doing them\u2026<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">Yeah, but at least they\u2019re now moving to licences where you get your rights back after 10, 12, 15 years. Labels owning masters in perpetuity is criminal, quite frankly.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>In general, does streaming generate enough money for artists and songwriters?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\"><span class=\"s1\">I sit somewhere in the middle on this. People forget that we were at a period of time in the music industry where piracy was huge. There was the potential that, if the DSPs hadn\u2019t come along and solved the problem, there would have been no music industry, because everyone had got used to whatever music they wanted being totally free.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">Spotify came along and offered this revolutionary model, where every single record was at your fingertips for a reasonable price. That\u2019s a brilliant thing and that entrepreneurship should be celebrated.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cI don\u2019t think DSPs get enough credit for the problem that they solved.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p class=\"p3\"><span class=\"s3\">The DSPs can always be paying artists and songwriters more, and that needs to be constantly examined. There\u2019s a lot of talk at the moment about the bundling system and there being a reduction to songwriters in the US from Spotify \u2013 that\u2019s shocking. But I don\u2019t think the DSPs get enough credit for the problem that they solved.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">I see artists wading into the conversation and taking aim at Spotify and I\u2019m like, \u2018You should check the deal you did with the record label before you go banging the drum against the DSP\u2019.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>How about TikTok? Have Jungle made any money from their huge popularity on the platform?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">It remains to be seen! TikTok is such a young, explosive platform \u2013 Universal pulling all their catalogue sent quite a signal, but TikTok seem to be pretty sure of themselves as a company. They\u2019re pretty fierce with the image they portray.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">There\u2019s no doubt that, with the virality they achieved on the platform, there was a benefit to the artist on more traditional streaming platforms. But there hasn\u2019t been enough time to see how much money Jungle have made from their <i>Back On 74<\/i> moment.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>Are you worried about the impact AI could have on the industry?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">I might be being incredibly na\u00efve, and these might be words I regret, but I don\u2019t see it as a threat at all.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">From everything I\u2019ve seen, AI can\u2019t compete with human ability; it\u2019s miles off. I\u2019ve messed around on Suno and it\u2019s so clearly created by artificial intelligence. Judging by the rate it\u2019s evolving, it might be a threat in the future. But there will always be a want for a human to connect with a human.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>Tell me about your experience working in the music industry with a neurological condition\u2026<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">I was diagnosed at the age of 16, so I can\u2019t really remember life before it, but it would be remiss of me to say it hasn\u2019t shaped the way I am.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">When I was a younger manager, I was very conscious of it. I worried \u2013 I hope needlessly \u2013 that I would lose a client because of it. I was very conscious of making sure I came across as strong and stable and as if there wasn\u2019t anything wrong.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">As I\u2019ve got older, I\u2019ve realised that, for the most part, people are incredibly understanding that people\u2019s health goes wrong and that\u2019s not their fault. Josh and Tom have always been incredibly supportive.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">I would have never spoken about it at the age of 24 \u2013 it\u2019s only now I\u2019m 35 that I can talk openly about the fact that, from the age of 16, I haven\u2019t been able to use my right hand properly.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">My condition, which is called multifocal motor neuropathy, [affects] between one in 100,000 and one in a million people, which makes me feel incredibly special!<\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\"><span class=\"s4\">But I don\u2019t want it to define my success. I want it to be a sidenote but, if my brief achievements in music make other people who have any form of mental or physical disability go, \u2018That\u2019s cool, that guy has had to adapt to life with that, maybe I can have a go at it too\u2019, that would be wonderful.<\/span><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6 class=\"p2\"><b>If you could change one thing about the music industry, right here and now, what would it be and why?<\/b><\/h6>\n<p class=\"p2\">More transparency. When our publishing company was coming out of its deal, we were potentially looking to go off by ourselves and set up with all the different PROs and societies around the world.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">And then we found it was such a spider\u2019s web of complexity. There were all these different people taking from the artists at different points.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\"><span class=\"s4\">The deeper you go into the mechanics of the music industry, the more depressing it gets, and the more you realise it\u2019s made complex on purpose, so that artists and managers can\u2019t understand it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">We need to make sure more cash is flowing back to the artist because, otherwise, there won\u2019t be a fresh crop of talent. There won\u2019t be new artists coming through if artists can\u2019t get paid properly, without all these bottom feeders taking money from them at each point.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">I sit here understanding that I work in the service industry; I take commission from the artist, but at least I take after the artist earns. I don\u2019t take before the artist earns.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p3\">There\u2019s a lot of stuff that needs to change and there\u2019s an old guard that sits there profiteering off stuff. If more people knew about it, they\u2019d be quite shocked.<\/p>\n<b><i><figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-external\" style=\"color: #003300;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.centtrip.com\/music?utm_source=MBW&amp;utm_medium=MPU_Banner&amp;utm_campaign=World_Greatest_Mgr\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP.jpg\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"\"><img  class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-80x45.jpg\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-80x45.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-160x90.jpg 160w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-320x180.jpg 320w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-418x235.jpg 418w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-648x364.jpg 648w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-836x470.jpg 836w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2019\/06\/CENTTRIP-1296x729.jpg 1296w\" data-sizes=\"auto\"><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/a><\/figure><a class=\"link-external\" style=\"color: #003300;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.centtrip.com\/music?utm_source=MBW&amp;utm_medium=MPU_Banner&amp;utm_campaign=World_Greatest_Mgr\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">A specialist in intelligent treasury, payments and foreign exchange, Centtrip works with over 500 global artists helping them and their crew maximise their income and reduce touring costs with its award-winning multi-currency card and market-leading exchange rates. Centtrip also offers record labels, promoters, collection societies and publishers a more cost-effective way to send payments across the globe.<\/a><\/i><\/b>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jungle manager Sam Denniston offers his thoughts on dinosaur record deals, TikTok, AI, going easy on DSPs and how his own neurological condition has and hasn\u2019t impacted his career\u2026 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":29,"featured_media":206611,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[132545,132544,3530],"class_list":["post-206563","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-jungle","tag-sam-denniston","tag-worlds-greatest-managers"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/206563","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/29"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=206563"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/206563\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":254037,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/206563\/revisions\/254037"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/206611"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=206563"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=206563"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=206563"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}