{"id":198123,"date":"2024-04-08T12:11:00","date_gmt":"2024-04-08T11:11:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/?p=198123"},"modified":"2024-04-08T12:12:08","modified_gmt":"2024-04-08T11:12:08","slug":"im-not-interested-in-regurgitating-the-past-but-im-also-not-in-the-rat-race-of-hopping-on-whatever-trend-is-most-popular-right-now","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/im-not-interested-in-regurgitating-the-past-but-im-also-not-in-the-rat-race-of-hopping-on-whatever-trend-is-most-popular-right-now\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8216;I\u2019m not interested in regurgitating the past, but I\u2019m also not in the rat race of hopping on whatever trend is most popular right now.&#8217;"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>MBW\u2019s World\u2019s Greatest Producers series sees us interview \u2013 and celebrate \u2013 some of the outstanding talents working in studios across the decades. In our latest episode, we catch up with Ian Fitchuk, a game-changing creative collaborator with Kacey Musgraves whose talent and track record stretches way beyond Nashville. World\u2019s Greatest Producers is supported by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hipgnosissongs.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Hipgnosis Song Management<\/a>.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Producers with Hipgnosis Songs Fund\"><img  alt=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Producers with Hipgnosis Songs Fund\" title=\"Music Business Worldwide World&#039;s Greatest Producers with Hipgnosis Songs Fund\" class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2020\/04\/WGP_Hipgnosis_300x250-1.gif\" ><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/figure><p>Ian Fitchuk was driving home from the studio when the revelation hit him.<\/p>\n<p>The sun was setting blood red on the Nashville skyline and he was listening to the demo of a song called <em>Oh, What A World<\/em> that he\u2019d just recorded with a fast-rising country singer-songwriter called Kacey Musgraves.<\/p>\n<p>Fitchuk had played on Musgraves\u2019 hit <em>Pageant Material<\/em> record, but this session saw him more involved as a co-producer and co-writer and it felt both thrillingly different and perfectly right.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe way I look at the world \u2013 nature, human relationships, music, the blending of genres\u2026 It all coalesced in that particular song,\u201d he grins, seven years on. \u201cI was thinking, \u2018I don\u2019t know where this is going to go, I hope she wants to do more, but I just know I love this and I can\u2019t believe I have the opportunity\u2019. It was just this magical moment of gratitude like, \u2018If this as good as it gets, I\u2019m here for it\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Spoiler alert: Musgraves did want to do more, and things were about to get a lot better for Ian Fitchuk.<\/p>\n<p>Parts of that enchanted demo actually made it on to the final version of Musgraves\u2019 <em>Golden Hour<\/em> album \u2013 released in 2018 and largely co-written and co-produced with Fitchuk and his friend Daniel Tashian \u2013 that would take Musgraves way beyond Nashville. <em>Golden Hour<\/em> went Platinum in the US and picked up the Album Of The Year award at the 2019 Grammys.<\/p>\n<p>But perhaps more importantly, the Musgraves-Fitchuk-Tashian axis has turned into one of the most enthralling and successful collaborative partnerships out there, taking in both 2021\u2019s <em>Star-Crossed<\/em> album and Musgraves\u2019 brand-new smash, <em>Deeper Well<\/em>.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<div class=\"mb-embed-container\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/TGkMYMxi-hw?si=y-tPW5Guaq19Id_x\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<hr \/>\n<p>Fitchuk, for his part, was not necessarily expecting to be catapulted onto the producer-writer A-list. Indeed, his style has always been a world away from your typical modern-day hitmaker supreme; far from imposing his style on artists, he\u2019s always happy to facilitate rather than dictate, and eschews chasing current sonic trends in favor of coaxing out an artist\u2019s true essence.<\/p>\n<p>He grew up with church and classical music \u2013 his parents were both musicians and teachers in Chicago \u2013 with his access to more contemporary hit sounds in the pre-streaming era restricted to what he could pick up from school friends and from saving his dollars to spend on cassettes (\u201cIf I could\u2019ve gone onto YouTube and found obscure Afrobeat music at 1 am as a 12-year-old, who knows what I would be doing now!\u201d he quips).<\/p>\n<p>He was in bands in High School, writing multiple potential melodies to fit his friend\u2019s lyrics, not really thinking of what he was doing as songwriting until he moved to Nashville in 2000 to study music.<\/p>\n<p>He arrived just as the city was embracing music beyond country and caught the wave of alternative Nashville sounds from the likes of Kings Of Leon and relocators The White Stripes and The Black Keys. Around the same time, the accelerating Pro Tools revolution gave everyone a studio in their bedroom and, as well as playing in bands, Fitchuk found himself often co-opted to work on his friends\u2019 efforts.<\/p>\n<p>From there, he graduated to producing the likes of Griffin House and Landon Pigg, with the recordings he helped out on often leading to record and publishing deals and sync placements. Suddenly he was a producer.<\/p>\n<p>But it was meeting Musgraves \u2013 who he first saw performing at a backyard party in Nashville \u2013 that really changed his life. \u201cThere was something that really deeply resonated with me,\u201d he says of that backyard show. \u201cI wasn\u2019t overly aggressive about it but, in my mind, I wished we would get to create something together.\u201d<\/p>\n<figure class=\"mbw-articlepic mbw-articlepic--right\"><a class=\"link-internal\" href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour.jpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour.jpg\" data-lightbox=\"image-set\" data-title=\"\"><img  class=\"lazyload\" src=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour-80x80.jpg\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour-160x160.jpg 160w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour-320x320.jpg 320w, https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/files\/2024\/04\/golden-hour-418x418.jpg 418w\" data-sizes=\"auto\"><i class=\"fas fa-search-plus magnifying-glass-icon\"><\/i><\/a><\/figure><p>It turned out Musgraves felt the same \u2013 her publisher reached out to Fitchuk ahead of the Golden Hour sessions, and the rest is country music history.<\/p>\n<p>And not just country music either \u2013 published by Sony Music Publishing, Fitchuk has since been in constant demand for alternative, pop and R&amp;B projects, as well as working with Nashville\u2019s finest. He\u2019s worked with everyone from Sigrid to Rene\u00e9 Rapp, Leon Bridges to Pink and even played drums on Harry Styles\u2019 <em>Fine Line<\/em> album.<\/p>\n<p>As well as Musgraves\u2019 <em>Deeper Well<\/em>, his current projects include Maggie Rogers\u2019 brilliant new single, <em>Don\u2019t Forget Me<\/em>, plus work on the <em>Bob Marley: One Love \u2013 Music Inspired By The Film<\/em> record, while he\u2019s also exploring various film and TV music projects.<\/p>\n<p>And yet Fitchuk is still happiest hanging out on his couch in Nashville, still keen to work on album projects in a world of one-off songs and \u2013 when it comes to both producing and songwriting \u2013 still far more interested in quality than quantity.<\/p>\n<p>Time, then, for <em>MBW<\/em> to catch up with him on that couch, as he affably talks us through working with Kacey Musgraves, co-writing and why there\u2019s no point worrying about AI\u2026<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR PRODUCTION STYLE?<\/h6>\n<p>I\u2019ve always been a collaborator, especially once I moved to Nashville and I was surrounded by people that had grown up writing songs, but needed help finishing them or figuring out how to convey an idea that they had. It\u2019s about being able to hear what somebody\u2019s really saying, read their emotional profile and bring the best out of somebody.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;It\u2019s about being able to hear what somebody\u2019s really saying, read their emotional profile and bring the best out of somebody.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I\u2019m not interested in regurgitating the past and trying to copy and paste styles and trends of the \u201870s, \u201880s or whatever. But I\u2019m also not trying to find myself in the rat race of hopping on whatever trend is most popular right now.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>SORT OF THE OPPOSITE OF THE MODERN \u2018SUPER-PRODUCER\u2019 STEREOTYPE THEN?<\/h6>\n<p>When people are talking about work that I\u2019ve done, they use words like, \u2018It has a certain soul or organic quality or warmth to it\u2019. I would rather have vague terms like that than it be \u2018modern country\u2019 or \u2018a hip-hop producer\u2019. I like the essence and the feeling of the music that I make to come through more than the genre.<\/p>\n<p>At the same time, one of my biggest influences is Jeff Lynne and there\u2019s an extremely identifiable quality to the music that he makes. I\u2019m not trying to avoid being noticed, but I certainly don\u2019t feel like my aim is to be noticed as a producer. I just want to work with great artists.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>ARE SONGWRITING AND PRODUCTION DIFFERENT JOBS TO YOU, OR DO THEY GO HAND-IN-HAND?<\/h6>\n<p>Most of the time, they\u2019re hand-in-hand. I just want to make great music, I know that\u2019s a clich\u00e9, but, to me, it\u2019s not a prerequisite to be part of the writing of a song in order to produce it.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;the best work comes when I develop a rapport and a connection with an artist, where they\u2019re not just coming to me for a certain sound or trademark.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I do find that some of the best work comes when I develop a rapport and a connection with an artist, where they\u2019re not just coming to me for a certain sound or trademark.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019d like to think I have a way of blending myself in with whoever it is, whether it\u2019s a band or an artist. Those lines get blurred, maybe we\u2019ll write some songs together, maybe I can hear between the lines of songs they\u2019ve come in with and know how to shape them to where it feels like a cohesive vision.<\/p>\n<p>But I still produce songs I\u2019ve had nothing to do with and I\u2019m always open-minded to producing singles and not just album projects.<\/p>\n<p>I also have a great passion for connecting people. I love it when an artist comes to town, maybe we\u2019ll write for a couple of days together, but I\u2019ll also pair them with a few people that I think they\u2019ll collaborate well with. I try to have zero ego. I just want the best material possible; in the end, that\u2019s what moves us all forward.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>DID YOU REALIZE WORKING WITH KACEY MUSGRAVES ON <em>GOLDEN HOUR<\/em> WAS GOING TO TRANSFORM YOUR CAREER?<\/h6>\n<p>At that point, I\u2019d been in Nashville for almost 20 years, so I\u2019d got to a place in my career where I\u2019d worked really hard and I was really proud of the music I\u2019d made.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019d had what I would consider a reasonable amount of success \u2013 I had a family, I took a couple of vacations a year and I was really happy making music I wanted to make and wasn\u2019t being forced to do things I didn\u2019t want to do. As far as I\u2019m concerned, if you\u2019re in music and can get to that level, you\u2019re extremely fortunate.<\/p>\n<p>I was at peace with my trajectory, but I still had the desire to make something that reached an even wider audience and that was representative of what I could do as a musician, producer and songwriter.<\/p>\n<div class=\"mb-embed-container\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/BM5Xa1FvNQQ\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>You hope for all those things to come together in a unified way, but it\u2019s very hard. I have friends that have had extreme success in music, but it\u2019s not necessarily representative of who they are and what they can do.<\/p>\n<p>Kacey had had success and was happy and comfortable doing what she was doing, but she\u2019s a very inquisitive person by nature, and she saw me as somebody who was safe and comfortable to be around, in a way that made her want to explore musically.<\/p>\n<p>At the end of the sessions, I was really proud that we had made an album that represented all of our curiosities, interests and intuitions. When it was received the way it was, it was a surprise in that, I wouldn\u2019t have cared if somebody had said they didn\u2019t like it, because I like it and it\u2019s great. But nothing could have prepared me for how much bigger it became.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>WAS THERE A LOT MORE PRESSURE ON THE FOLLOW-UP AFTER ALL THAT SUCCESS?<\/h6>\n<p>Early on, there definitely was some pressure but then the world shut down [during the pandemic] and that helped.<\/p>\n<p>If the world and the music business had just been turning the way it had been, it would have felt more intense, but we just hunkered down and tried to challenge ourselves musically and lyrically. It was January, it was cold, no one was going anywhere or doing anything so, for us to be able to huddle up in that really tight, private environment and focus on making <em>Star-Crossed<\/em> was really therapeutic for all of us and helped keep the outside noise out.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll always be really proud of <em>Star-Crossed<\/em>. Throughout the years since, I\u2019ve had people come up and tell me how meaningful that music has been. It\u2019s a work that will be noticed more over time. But there was no expectation for it to sweep awards the way [<em>Golden Hour<\/em>] had done before and musically, there was some controversy about it not being eligible for the country category at the Grammys. I found that exciting to be honest!<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>HOW COME?<\/h6>\n<p>If you\u2019re making people scratch their heads, that\u2019s good. I like the idea of being part of music that\u2019s challenging for somebody to categorize or understand.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>DO YOU WORRY THAT MAKING ALBUMS IS GOING OUT OF FASHION?<\/h6>\n<p>I try not to worry about it too much, because I know how elusive it can be just to get one great song. It\u2019s ambitious to make an album, it\u2019s assuming that people have the time and attention to do so. I just hope I continue to have the opportunity.<\/p>\n<p>I have a hard time believing that the touring business and live performance are going to go away. People love to go and experience music together and, as long as that\u2019s happening, they\u2019re going to need material to play. You could have one big song that everybody\u2019s going to come to hear and that\u2019s fine, but if you have a whole concept and musical landscape to unfold before people, that\u2019s always an incentive.<\/p>\n<p>An album project, a great live show, a story to tell and a concept to convey all work together. Maybe it will become less common, but I don\u2019t fear that it\u2019s completely going away.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>IF YOU COULD CHANGE ONE THING ABOUT TODAY&#8217;S MUSIC INDUSTRY, RIGHT HERE AND NOW, WHAT WOULD IT BE AND WHY?<\/h6>\n<p>I\u2019d really take a look at the publishing structure with streaming services, because it\u2019s having a really dark effect on songwriters\u2019 ability to make a living.<\/p>\n<p>We need to look at the possibility of them participating in the master recording. I don\u2019t know how else streams are going to turn into money for songwriters, I see how they do for royalties on the production side. There\u2019s an inequality there, songwriters really need to be represented just like the writers in Hollywood.<\/p>\n<p>Speaking as somebody that is both on the production and songwriting side of things, I\u2019m very thankful that I\u2019m being paid on the producer side as well, because there\u2019s a great disparity there.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;it\u2019s a daunting perspective if you\u2019re &#8216;just&#8217; a songwriter right now.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Even in the country world, with artists just not going to radio anymore, there\u2019s not enough money being made in streaming on the publishing side to make up for the money that\u2019s not being made on terrestrial radio.<\/p>\n<p>The less that songwriters are going to be able to make a living, the [more the] quality of music is going to suffer. There are going to be great artists and people are always going to know how to make music, but the craft of songwriting and people who don\u2019t get on stage but really know how to put a song together, those people need to know they have a viable way of making a living.<\/p>\n<p>Production-wise, participating in the master is helpful, so there\u2019s still incentive to continue to work with smaller artists who have growth ahead of them, but it\u2019s a daunting perspective if you\u2019re &#8216;just&#8217; a songwriter right now.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE TREND FOR MULTIPLE CO-WRITERS AND CO-PRODUCERS ON EVERY TRACK?<\/h6>\n<p>I\u2019m all for everybody getting credit for participating in creating a song. I have no problem with that.<\/p>\n<p>But I have noticed there is a lot more deliberation and litigation in the pop world. In Nashville, there\u2019s an unspoken agreement that if there are four people in the room and the song gets written that day, it gets split evenly four ways.<\/p>\n<p>There are arguments to be made if somebody\u2019s not contributing as much as the others, but when you start to nit-pick what contribution is, it\u2019s a really slippery slope and it\u2019s really damaging to creative relationships. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s worth the trouble. Sometimes, contributing to a song is listening and encouraging and saying, \u2018Do you remember when you said this?\u2019 Contribution can look like a lot of different things.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;I\u2019m all for everybody getting credit for participating in creating a song. I have no problem with that. But I have noticed there is a lot more deliberation and litigation in the pop world.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The part that\u2019s murkier for me is what we\u2019re seeing now with interpolations; when I\u2019m turning albums in to labels, they\u2019re having musicologists look through them to see if there\u2019s anything they can hear where other artists might be coming after you for publishing, which is a little unfortunate.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m completely fine with checking in with that artist and getting it cleared. But for them to come back and ask for a large portion of the song\u2026 It seems like a dangerous road to be going down. I\u2019m nervous about how greed factors into people coming after you for works that were unintentional [in their similarity]. I\u2019m sure there are some people listening to songs and trying to lift melodies, but I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the norm.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>AND HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE POTENTIAL THREAT TO YOUR CRAFT FROM ARTIFICAL INTELLIGENCE?<\/h6>\n<p>So far, I haven\u2019t heard anything that\u2019s convinced me that it\u2019s better. There are still too many nuances to the human voice.<\/p>\n<p>You can pull a loop down from the internet and slap some other loops on it and boom, you\u2019ve got a song. The ease of putting music together has been around for a minute and it\u2019s still required human emotion and ingenuity to make it unique. It\u2019s not helpful to dwell on being afraid of it or trying to suppress it. Just like anything, the more you try to control and avoid it, the more it becomes a darker energy. It\u2019s something to be reckoned with, but I\u2019d like to keep an open mind and we\u2019ll see what happens.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;So far, I haven\u2019t heard anything that\u2019s convinced me that [AI is] better. There are still too many nuances to the human voice.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I remember in the early 2000s when I moved to Nashville \u2013 at that time it was Napster. I remember everybody saying, \u2018You picked the worst time to move to Nashville, the music industry is over\u2019 \u2013 that was the mindset because the technology was changing, CDs were going away and that was such a cash cow.<\/p>\n<p>And it did impact, it did change everything but, if I\u2019d just packed up then and said, \u2018Well, there\u2019s no more money to be made in music, I might as well go find something else to do\u2019, we wouldn\u2019t be having this conversation.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>MBW\u2019s World\u2019s Greatest Producers series meets Kacey Musgraves collaborator Ian Fitchuk<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":29,"featured_media":198126,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[119500],"class_list":["post-198123","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-worlds-greatest-producers"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198123","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/29"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=198123"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198123\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/198126"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=198123"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=198123"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=198123"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}