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<\/i><\/a><\/figure>“A strong family is together forever \u2013 no matter what. A strong company, on the other hand, is more like a pro sports team.\u201d<\/p>\n
This is Netflix\u2019s HR creed, with various versions of it attributed to the video streaming giant\u2019s co-founder and Chairman, Reed Hastings. It rather dismantles the template record executive claim that each new artist signing is \u201cnow part of the Limetree Records\/BCA\/Interplanetary Music Group family\u201d.<\/p>\n
Reed Hastings is absolutely right, of course: a music company is not a real family. Real families care little for industry showcases or amplifying TikTok trends. You can\u2019t drop real family members \u2013 unless you\u2019re especially heartless \u2013 by blocking their number and asking your VP of A&R to send a curt email.<\/p>\n
Raising a real family? That\u2019s worry, it\u2019s exasperation, it\u2019s joy that makes your heart burst from your ribcage. It\u2019s seeing potential in people like no one else can, and experiencing a physical sickness when they waste it.<\/p>\n
All of which being true\u2026 you should hear Jamie Oborne when he says, self-knowingly, that certain artists signed to his management company, All On Red, are like \u201cfamily\u201d to him. Because Oborne speaks about some of these people \u2013 The 1975\u2019s Matthew Healy most acutely; Jack Antonoff most effervescently \u2013 as if they\u2019re blood fraternity, not clients.<\/p>\n
\u201cPeople sometimes say to me, \u2018You\u2019re a good salesman for your artists\u2019,\u201d explains Oborne. \u201cThe irony is that, in general terms, I\u2019m actually a really shit salesman.\u201d The solution to that shortcoming? \u201cDon\u2019t sign things you don\u2019t fully believe in. Otherwise you\u2019ll have to fake it.\u201d<\/p>\n
Last year, Oborne tells MBW<\/em>, was the best ever \u2013 for management company All On Red and his record label, Dirty Hit \u2013 both commercially, and in terms of the enjoyment levels of the two companies\u2019 shared proprietor.<\/p>\n Highlights included The 1975\u2019s \u2018At Their Very Best\u2019 tour, which saw the band play 93 arena-sized dates across North America, South America, Europe, Asia, and Oceania, ending in August 2023. Just one month later, the band embarked on the \u2018Still\u2026 At Their Very Best\u2019 tour, adding another 60+ dates across Europe and North America.<\/p>\n Says Oborne: \u201cThe 1975 tour has been incredibly personally rewarding, watching that band be as brave and unflinching as I\u2019ve ever seen them. You can\u2019t not be inspired by the dedication\u00a0they show and their commitment to their form. They are artists in the true sense of the word.\u201d<\/p>\n Elsewhere, Jack Antonoff \u2013 by multiple measures, the most successful non-featured producer in the world \u2013 signed to All On Red as a management client in 2023, in addition to striking a JV deal with Dirty Hit to release the albums of Antonoff\u2019s own band, Bleachers. (Bleachers\u2019 first LP on Dirty Hit, a self-titled album, was released in March, with the NME<\/em> calling it \u201ca triumphant portrait of Antonoff\u2019s talent\u201d.) Antonoff\u2019s work behind the desk with The 1975 on 2022\u2019s chart-topping Being Funny In A Foreign Language<\/em> seeded his relationship with Oborne. It also pre-dated Antonoff\u2019s work on two of the most important records of the past decade: Taylor Swift\u2019s Midnights<\/em> and Lana Del Rey\u2019s Did You Know That There\u2019s a Tunnel Under Ocean Blvd<\/em>.<\/p>\n In February, Antonoff won the Grammy for Producer of\u00a0the Year for the third year in a row; two months beforehand, Antonoff told MBW<\/em> that Oborne had \u201cchanged my life in\u00a0just about every positive way\u201d. Oborne volleys back similarly effusive praise: \u201cWorking with Jack is wonderful. Like all of my best management relationships, it\u2019s a constant exchange of ideas and conversation. I\u2019m very grateful for it.\u201d<\/p>\n Oborne\u2019s world since MBW<\/em> last caught up with him hasn\u2019t been without tumult, though. There was the small matter of Matthew Healy\u2019s short-lived relationship with Taylor Swift last summer, for one thing \u2013 a story feasted upon by tabloids \u2013 while The 1975 frontman caused upset with his contribution to a podcast\u00a0from puerile\/absurdist American comic, Adam Friedland. Elsewhere, Dirty Hit has moved into a post-Wolf Alice era, after the band left the indie to sign a global deal with RCA\/Sony Music in late 2022. (One suspects that Oborne remains pained by\u00a0the nature of this split; he won\u2019t be drawn on specifics, aside\u00a0from a diplomatic: \u201cIt\u2019s quite natural to feel deeply attached to stories that you helped build.\u201d)<\/p>\n The active Dirty Hit roster, meanwhile, continues to blossom. Acclaimed records in recent months have arrived from acts like The Japanese House, Benjamin Francis Leftwich and beabadoobee \u2013 with Oborne calling new signing, Saya Gray, \u201cridiculously good\u201d. Thanks to artists like this, Dirty Hit stands as one of the most important global distribution partners of Universal\u2019s Virgin Music Group, a relationship that began\u00a0with UMG\/Ingrooves over a decade ago. (The 1975\u2019s latest album was released fully independently around the globe. The band\u2019s first four albums are licensed by Dirty Hit to UMG, though sources suggest they will begin reverting to Dirty Hit\u2019s ownership within the next five or six years.)<\/p>\n Plenty to dig into then, as we sit down with Oborne for his first interview with us in six years\u2026<\/p>\n Literally from the first day we met in person at Real World Studios [for The 1975 album in 2022] in Bath, we had a connection. As time developed, we talked more and more and became friends. I didn\u2019t have any insight into Jack\u2019s management situation changing, which doesn\u2019t surprise me now as I\u2019ve learned that Jack is an incredibly loyal person so he would never have mentioned it.<\/p>\n But by the middle of [2022] his previous situation had come to an end. He knew I very much admired what he\u2019d done professionally, and he\u2019d made clear that he admired what [Dirty Hit\/All On Red] had achieved too. By October [2022], I had a feeling that he was about to ask me if I\u2019d be interested in managing him. It was\u00a0very organic. It was like all of the best things in my professional life \u2013 no agenda, completely unplanned, completely serendipitous.<\/p>\n On the Bleachers [Dirty Hit] side of things, I saw Bleachers when they played Shepherd\u2019s Bush Empire that September [2022]. I just went to support Jack, with no expectations. I was fucking blown away. I\u2019ve never seen anything like it before. I saw one of the best bands on the planet live, and it left me flummoxed why no one had properly marketed it before. I felt passionate about signing Bleachers to Dirty Hit.<\/p>\n It benefited us that Jack had witnessed The 1975 campaign from inception to execution [for Being Funny In A Foreign Language<\/em>] and was impressed. I don\u2019t mean that in an egotistical way. Myself and Ed [Blow] believe that the best artist marketing campaigns have very defined visual and communicative \u2018rules\u2019. That\u2019s something [Dirty Hit] is great at.<\/p>\n It\u2019s 100% true that there isn\u2019t an artist on our label or our management company who isn\u2019t there because we completely believe in them and their vision. But it\u2019s funny: when Jack and I have conversations about the list of people who want to work with him, he comes back to the same thing: \u2018I need to meet them in person, because I need to believe them.\u2019<\/p>\n That\u2019s that\u2019s the biggest factor for him [in choosing the artists he works with]. Not what the numbers are. \u2018Can we get them to Electric Lady? I need to make sure I believe what they\u2019re saying.\u2019<\/p>\n They probably think he\u2019s a digital producer. Wrong. Wrong! He is so analog, it blew my mind. Also, people think he works on loads of stuff \u2013 wrong! He works on very little; it just so happens that a lot of it is massive. When I first experienced Jack in the studio with Matthew and George [of The 1975], I saw he had no ego, at all. So I don\u2019t think people know who Jack really is; it\u2019s just that some people have bought into some of the media around him [and his work with superstars like Taylor Swift], which is designed for clicks, frankly.<\/p>\n I\u2019m excited by the idea of punching through the false ceiling of who people think he is. I think I\u2019m a pretty good judge of creative talent at this point \u2013 that\u2019s something I can say about myself without feeling too much of a ****! \u2013 and Jack is a powerful creative mind.<\/p>\n I\u2019ve been insanely lucky to have worked with a few people I could describe that way. There was one night that sticks in my mind, when [The 1975] were making Being Funny<\/em>\u2026, where Matthew and Jack were sitting in a studio talking about how the new genre in music is \u2018quality\u2019. It\u2019s such a nice way of explaining what I\u2019m trying to describe.<\/p>\n I\u2019m emotionally invested in the artists I work with, which is why I have quite a small personal roster of management clients. If I don\u2019t have an emotional connection with someone, I can\u2019t do it.<\/p>\n I\u2019m a manager who is very protective of my artists\u2019 rights; I always want to make sure that they\u2019re the main beneficiary of their work. That might mean some of the labels I\u2019ve worked with over the years may describe me as stubborn; I would describe it as focused on the artist\u2019s vision. Though I understand that some people might find it frustrating, it\u2019s coming from a reasonable place. Whether it\u2019s A&R or management, the artists I\u2019m attracted to working with are right about what they do 90% of the time, or more. My job is to provide that final 10% and guide them to wherever their goal is, whether that be creative, financial, whatever.<\/p>\n “I\u2019m not a shouter-manager. Life\u2019s too short for that. I\u2019d rather get my own way by being right than by shouting.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n I think most people would agree that I\u2019m a rational person. I\u2019m not, like, a shouter-manager. Life\u2019s too short for that. I\u2019d rather get my own way by being right than by shouting.<\/p>\n If I\u2019m being honest, I think in the music industry, people sometimes get confused. They think it\u2019s about their ego, whereas actually, it\u2019s always about the artist\u2019s ego, because that\u2019s the very origin of why they create.<\/p>\n By holding on! I had a call from [Matthew Healy] this morning talking me through ideas for what he wants to do next musically. It\u2019s really exciting, but I was saying to him, \u2018You need to have a break.\u2019 It\u2019s difficult for me to talk about Matthew in an interview like this because I\u2019m so protective of him. I have felt his pain over this past year.<\/p>\n Yeah, but that\u2019s what it\u2019s like, though, isn\u2019t it? I have genuine love for these people. They are part of my family, you know? That\u2019s a great thing. And it seems to be a reciprocal thing.<\/p>\n It is harder than ever to develop a foundation for an artist to break from, that\u2019s true, and there are a few reasons for it.<\/p>\n But speaking frankly, sometimes I feel the greatest enemy of artist development today, or the biggest pitfall of artist development today, is the artists themselves, and their lack of patience.<\/p>\n I\u2019ll explain: culture, communication and media messages are so quick at the moment that I feel artists, even young artists, sometimes want to bypass [essential] stages of their development. But just because you can upload something to DistroKid, it doesn\u2019t mean that you fucking should! Maybe your music isn\u2019t good enough. Maybe you need to spend five years in a rehearsal room, getting good at your instrument and finding fluidity with your bandmates.<\/p>\n People are so trained for instant gratification now, they even want it in their artistic statement. I\u2019d extend that to people who work in the music business \u2013 they often want something to work straight away, and don\u2019t want to put the work in to make it happen. This isn\u2019t me just being a boomer; it\u2019s my personal experience. You\u2019ve got to put in the 10,000 hours; I don\u2019t know a way around it.<\/p>\n I\u2019m a human being so the appeal [of oodles of money] is sometimes there and sometimes not. When I\u2019m feeling really tired or embattled, it has its appeal! But my default thought on this is that I really love what I do. I truly feel like we\u2019re building something of cultural importance, in our own way.<\/p>\n I love the autonomy we have, and I hope the artists who work with us believe in [the importance] of that autonomy too. It would be very difficult for me to put a price on that, or on the ambition I have for this label. The soul of what we do is the fact that we live and die by our own decisions.<\/p>\n “I suspect a lot of people who have sold their catalogs are going to find out that the reason someone wanted to pay so much money for them is because they\u2019re worth more than that.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n On a purely business level, I suspect a lot of people who have sold their catalogs [in recent years] are going to find out that the reason someone wanted to pay so much money for them is because they\u2019re worth more than that [figure].<\/p>\n I\u2019m not talking about Elliot Grainge there, by the way. I know little about his label, but I met him once at his dad\u2019s house in LA to watch an Arsenal game and he seemed like a lovely guy. From what I know, it sounds to me like [10K Projects] got an amazing deal.<\/p>\n This question confuses me a bit, because I really believe we are all the architects of our own change. So I guess I\u2019d change the false narrative that there are no choices.<\/p>\n It\u2019s like when I see artists or managers moaning about having signed [modern-day] record deals and how they should be getting X or Y instead. And I tend to feel, \u2018Well, then gamble on yourself,\u2019 you know? Maybe don\u2019t let your management company take a big advance because that\u2019s how they are [commercially incentivized]. Maybe don\u2019t blame the label who signed you \u2013 blame the lawyer who advised you to take the deal!<\/p>\n Don\u2019t get me wrong: there are good deals and bad deals, and there are definitely still a few systems that exist to the detriment of artists. But they are usually based on old-fashioned business models that you can challenge by betting on yourself.<\/p>\n Jamie Oborne talks success, ambition, adding Jack Antonoff to his management stable, and the \u201cunflinching\u201d artistry of The 1975\u2026<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":198094,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[3530],"class_list":["post-198092","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-worlds-greatest-managers"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198092","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=198092"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198092\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":254039,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198092\/revisions\/254039"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/198094"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=198092"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=198092"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=198092"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}<\/i><\/a><\/figure>
\nHow did All On Red\u2019s management of Jack Antonoff\u00a0come about?<\/h6>\n
\n<\/i><\/a>
\n
\nIt\u2019s interesting to hear you suggest that Jack\u2019s signing was \u201cserendipitous\u201d. Another version of the story is that Dirty Hit is uncompromising in the artists it signs and the way you promote those artists \u2013 even though they\u2019re not always the most obvious commercial hitmakers. By not compromising yourself, you ignore easy commercial wins, things are inevitably more of a slog, but you forge a clear identity. That identity then attracts talented people, including the most successful active producer in modern music…<\/h6>\n
\nWhat do people get wrong about Jack Antonoff?<\/h6>\n
\nHow would you define yourself as a talent manager?<\/h6>\n
\nThe 1975 have never been bigger globally, across all corners of the earth. And they have a solid \u2018body of work\u2019 to call on for live shows, which helps feed into a restless creativity in terms of staging, sets etc. But their touring schedule has really been something this past year and a half \u2013 I count over 150 dates since late 2022, each in support of the most recent album. How do you keep up with that sort of pace, both creatively and practically?<\/h6>\n
\n<\/i><\/a><\/figure>
\nIt sounds like you are constantly flitting between management, friendship and fraternity with this individual.<\/h6>\n
\nI\u2019m detecting quite a lot of general negativity in the music industry about artist development right now, especially in the UK. People say that in the TikTok age, in the age of masses of music being uploaded and created and spread across the internet, getting people to care about artists seems like an uphill battle.<\/h6>\n
\nOne of the biggest music industry headlines of recent months has been Los Angeles-based 10K Projects selling a 51% stake in its company to Warner Music Group for over USD $100 million. Throughout Dirty Hit\u2019s existence, you\u2019ve always been extremely proud of being fully independent, as exemplified by every record you\u2019ve released via Ingrooves\/Virgin Music Group, under which you\u2019ve kept all rights \u2013 including The 1975\u2019s latest album. Offers must have come in to buy Dirty Hit, or at least to buy a piece of it. Why haven\u2019t you been tempted?<\/h6>\n
\nOur usual final question, and I\u2019m keen to see how your answer has changed from previous interviews: if you could change one thing about the music business, what would it be and why?<\/h6>\n
\n<\/i><\/a><\/a><\/figure>A specialist in intelligent treasury, payments and foreign exchange, Centtrip works with over 500 global artists helping them and their crew maximise their income and reduce touring costs with its award-winning multi-currency card and market-leading exchange rates. Centtrip also offers record labels, promoters, collection societies and publishers a more cost-effective way to send payments across the globe.<\/a><\/i><\/b><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"